063: Understanding Philanthropy - Meg George, Co-founder & President of George Philanthropy Group

In this episode, Ed Gillentine interviews Meg George, the Co-founder & President of George Philanthropy Group. They discuss a number of topics including Meg's new children's book that aims to help children understand what philanthropy is and learn to become philanthropic.

Show Links

Ed Gillentine:
EdGillentine.com
Instagram: @journey.to.impact

George Philanthropy Group:
www.georgephilanthropy.com
www.megtgeorge.com
LinkedIn
Instagram: @georgephilanthropy

Books:
Journey To Impact by Ed Gillentine
What's Philanthropy to Philomena? by Meg George
Fair Play by Eve Rodsky

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:08
Ed Gillentine
Welcome to the Journey to Impact podcast. I'm your host, Ed Gillentine and I'm here with Meg George, the co-founder and president of George Philanthropy Group. Meg, welcome.

00:00:09:14 - 00:00:11:14
Meg George
Thank you. I'm grateful to be here. Ed.

00:00:11:16 - 00:00:33:00
Ed Gillentine
Well, I'm come to you're here too, and really excited about the topic today and talking about your your new book and all that's going to bleed into and we've got a lot of ground to cover for our listeners. But let me give you guys a little bit of background on Meg and then we'll jump right in. As I mentioned, she's the co-founder and president of George Philanthropy Group.

00:00:33:02 - 00:00:51:08
Ed Gillentine
Got her undergraduate degree in French from LeMoyne College in Syracuse, New York, which that's going to be fantastic Start conversation. I know we've already talked a little bit about the French and the sort of the arts background. She's happily married to Phil. Do you guys have like a dog? I forgot to even ask you about pets. Do you have any pets running around?

00:00:51:09 - 00:00:53:06
Meg George
We don't have any pets.

00:00:53:08 - 00:01:17:02
Ed Gillentine
Enough Kids are enough, right? I got it. Yeah. I really love your first page of your website. I mean, it kind of encapsulates it. High impact philanthropy, right? And I like to think I know you're younger than me, but I like to think you and I sort of our generation, it's shifted from how much are we giving? How much impact are we having?

00:01:17:04 - 00:01:21:16
Ed Gillentine
And I think that's really important. Did I miss anything that you want to add?

00:01:21:18 - 00:01:23:04
Meg George
Nope.

00:01:23:06 - 00:01:39:16
Ed Gillentine
So without further ado, let's jump in. Why don't we start, Meg, with the Cliff Note version of sort of how you got from sort of the northeast French class all the way down to Florida and philanthropy and all that stuff.

00:01:39:18 - 00:02:02:00
Meg George
Okay. So the Cliff notes is that my parents I was one of I am one of four children. I was raised in a middle class Irish Catholic household outside of Utica, New York. I had a stay at home mom. My dad worked for the phone company and I was there one child who was obsessed with going to school.

00:02:02:02 - 00:02:23:10
Meg George
They really rode that because when you have four, it's tiring and having one you don't have to really think about. I think they felt like that was a huge blessing. We still talk about this to this very day when I see when my parents come visit and I told them I was going to go to pharmacy school and that gave them such tremendous pride.

00:02:23:10 - 00:02:39:20
Meg George
They helped me get a job at a local pharmacy and I worked there in the summers and then I went on the class trip, the big class trip to France, and I came back and I said, You know what? I'm not going to go to pharmacy school. I'm going to go to a liberal arts college, I'm going to get a French degree.

00:02:40:00 - 00:03:15:16
Meg George
And my dad was like, Oh my gosh, are you 100% sure? I was like, 100% sure. I had no idea what I was going to do with my life. I knew I would be a teacher because I don't have that skill set. But I figured it would work out and it did. So after college, I stayed right at my alma mater and worked as a gift officer, So I had the opportunity to travel to Washington, D.C., in New York City and western New York and Philadelphia and experience cities that I hadn't really ever spent much time in.

00:03:15:21 - 00:03:36:23
Meg George
And I got to meet alums and solicit them for gifts. And I absolutely loved it. I wanted to do something that felt challenging and forced me to get out of my comfort zone and be kind of bold, which is what they were upfront about when I took the job. And I also knew that I was doing something really great.

00:03:36:24 - 00:04:00:21
Meg George
So I met my husband at that job and we both went on to have other roles at different institutions and ultimately we left those to found our firm. And around the same time as the pandemic, there was kind of a migration of wealth from the Northeast to the South east, and it pulled our business down south even more than it had.

00:04:00:21 - 00:04:27:01
Meg George
We had been traveling by plane to Florida probably once a month to work with some of our nonprofit clients that we had met. To be honest, from coming and traveling and visiting Florida and really enjoying being here. There was not a super strong culture of the kind of high impact philanthropy that you and I talk about. And so ultimately we made the move so that we could spend less time on planes and here we are.

00:04:27:03 - 00:04:48:18
Ed Gillentine
That is a that's a that's a good reason in and of itself. You mentioned sort of the challenge. It sounds like you didn't come out of your junior, senior year thinking, Man, I would love to go ask people for money. Right. So super challenging right off the bat. But what made you sort of fall in love with it?

00:04:48:18 - 00:05:00:19
Ed Gillentine
Because I do feel like fundraising is almost a calling, but what was it that made you sort of fall in love with it and realized, Man, I'm having significant impact doing this?

00:05:00:21 - 00:05:22:02
Meg George
It's true that most people do not think in college or university that they will work in philanthropy. And just as a side note, that's something I feel passionately about. I've just started to ask, you know, some local even universities and colleges whether I can come in and speak to a group of students about how great of a field this is.

00:05:22:02 - 00:05:59:04
Meg George
I want business students and law students and French students, anyone who wants to help make the world a better place and feels motivated and has the skill set to even learn how to do this, something they can acquire. I welcome you here, but meeting people one on one and having to figure out how you will navigate a conversation very genuinely, but also strategically to leave a one hour discussion with somebody with a gift or a plan to solicit a gift felt like a really great challenge.

00:05:59:06 - 00:06:30:17
Meg George
The hardest part, I do think, is sometimes securing the second visit and figuring that out and feeling like I could be successful. And that felt so energizing to me. So it was just in college that was the first exposure I really had to philanthropy and being one of very few French majors at my college, I received a scholarship and it was from a gentleman who had lost his wife, who also had earned a French degree, and he set up a scholarship in her name.

00:06:30:17 - 00:06:54:01
Meg George
And there was one night on a very cold, really dark, ugly Syracuse weather night where they were trying to get all the students to come out and meet the donor who had funded their scholarship. And I just put on whatever my north face, you know, fleece and some boots and said, fine, I'll go meet this person. And I loved him.

00:06:54:01 - 00:07:13:23
Meg George
And we ended up having lunches together and coffees and staying in touch. And it really moved me that he didn't know me. He was just going to meet me that night once ever, probably for most people, and that he would give his own personal money to help me. And that was a huge deal to my family getting any kind of scholarship money.

00:07:13:23 - 00:07:29:07
Meg George
So I felt like a spark kind of hit me before I graduated. And then it came full circle. When I was offered. They approached me about applying for the job, knowing that I might have the kind of personality that would be a good fit for asking for gifts.

00:07:29:09 - 00:07:57:06
Ed Gillentine
Yeah, you know, it's interesting you tell the story about the donor, and that's a story I've heard a lot, just the personal fulfillment from the donor side, right? I mean, that's pretty amazing to know that you impacted, in your case, a young lady, right? Significantly with her education. But be able to have that relationship is pretty neat. I want to I want to talk about the book for a second, but maybe we can come back if we have time.

00:07:57:06 - 00:08:24:24
Ed Gillentine
This idea of growing sort of the next generation of of philanthropists and people that are basically helping them give. Right. That's what you're doing. But getting that in a more formal sort of training because it has become a lot more technical, too. And a shout out to the CAP program chartered Advisor in Philanthropy, which I was fortunate to get.

00:08:25:01 - 00:08:47:09
Ed Gillentine
And I'll be honest with you, Maggie, I got it. Because you know how it is in our industry. You got to get all the C and so, you know, you end up getting a bunch of designations. This was the only one that was ever interesting to me and was ever, frankly, very helpful. But it was a more formal thing through the American college that emphasized what you and I don't know, sort of learned the hard way.

00:08:47:09 - 00:09:21:00
Ed Gillentine
Right? We we want to engage philanthropists. We want to sort of quarterback that. Right. And we want to change this idea of fundraising from I don't know, it's just somebody that smiles and dials to somebody that is on the side of the donor and the organization trying to bring them together. So that's another thing. But I'm glad you're pushing that because I think I personally think is just as critical is like a CFP or CFA type of designation anyway, for part that.

00:09:21:02 - 00:09:24:11
Meg George
You know, that's great. I think that's really interesting.

00:09:24:13 - 00:09:33:06
Ed Gillentine
Talk about the book, how it came to be and and the big launch date coming up shortly.

00:09:33:12 - 00:10:12:19
Meg George
Yeah, thank you for asking. So November 15th, which happens to also be national Philanthropy Day, the book will launch. It's titled What's Philanthropy to Philomena? And it's the story of a little girl's journey in discovering both the word and really the concept of philanthropy. And I love that this little girl, Philomena, can kind of show us through her story that no one is too young or too little to understand the idea of generosity and actually take part in making the world a better place.

00:10:12:21 - 00:10:40:05
Meg George
And she learns about this through conversations and action with family members, including a brother who's just a couple of years older than her. So I hope that the book will serve as a little bit of a tool and maybe a launching point for some conversations and action within families between grandparents, nannies or caregivers, teachers and certainly parents. It's the kind of book that feels realistic.

00:10:40:05 - 00:11:12:22
Meg George
It happens within a home in somebody's yard throughout one day, and it makes my own children who hear the word philanthropy all of the time, even ask me questions or think about more ideas on how to be philanthropic. So my goal is that all the children who can possibly get access to this book, get a copy and grow up believing that they are philanthropists, because I think if they grow up believing that they will be adults who are philanthropists.

00:11:12:24 - 00:11:40:14
Ed Gillentine
That's really good. I gave you two questions because I don't want to forget on you. You take them in the order in which you wanted. First of all, why do you think talking about this with children is important and a number to when you think about how your childhood kind of shapes how you do philanthropy, what are some things you guys have experimented with with your kids that probably have had some impact on this book?

00:11:40:14 - 00:11:43:06
Ed Gillentine
So maybe both those questions, but take them however you want.

00:11:43:11 - 00:12:08:04
Meg George
I think with our own children, we've tried very hard to bring them into the fold when we can around giving our money away. And actually, at when I first met you, I think I had told you a story that had happened just maybe that day or that we my husband was on the golf course when one of our children, our seven year old son, and he found money just in the middle of the fairway.

00:12:08:04 - 00:12:37:10
Meg George
And my son came running over to the golf cart and said, look at this. I can't. I need to buy something. And my husband was like, That's amazing. What a lucky day. What do you think I'm going to ask you to do with some of that money? And he was like, Give it away because we've now sort of trained our children to accept that when we're really, really lucky and we're fortunate, which is such a relative word in our country.

00:12:37:10 - 00:13:02:00
Meg George
There's I want to acknowledge the disparity of wealth, but our children have plenty to eat and a loving school and a home, and we have a responsibility. I tell them to be generous to others and try to make their life better if we can. So at Christmas time, right at year end, when I think generosity and giving back just feels like it's heavy on a lot of families minds.

00:13:02:02 - 00:13:28:12
Meg George
We offer three different nonprofits to our children, and I try to choose things that I think they would really appreciate. Like our daughter loves animals, so we usually include something with that. Our son is extremely compassionate about people like asylum seekers or refugees. You know, we try to think of the things that they've kind of shown interest in and we explain why this nonprofit exists and what it does and what it might use money for.

00:13:28:14 - 00:13:50:02
Meg George
Now, I'm lucky because I do this for a living. So other families have said to me, Well, how would I find that out? Most of that is right on an organization's website. But there's also somebody who fundraises at every nonprofit who can answer those questions. So a five minute phone call or a quick email just to pose some questions will usually suffice.

00:13:50:04 - 00:14:23:15
Meg George
And once we kind of present the nonprofit, we have a conversation as a family on selecting just one. And that feels really important to me because I think if you have $500 and you give $1 to 500 nonprofits, you can only do so much, even though how generous are you? You gave away $500. If you have $500 and you choose one, and it's a homeless shelter that says, Jesus, We've had four new people come in in the last couple of days and that costs us 25 extra dollars a day.

00:14:23:15 - 00:14:47:15
Meg George
You can start to do the math on how impactful your $500 is going to be in supporting these new people who need these services. So I practice what I preach with my family. We vote, we try to have a meaningful discussion. We tell them how much we're going to give. We ask them to give something. I say, even if it's just $1, they always end up giving more than that.

00:14:47:17 - 00:14:59:02
Meg George
And then we'll go on my computer and make the gift, or I'll write the check and they'll come in the car with me to drop it off. And I think that they really enjoy it. And now they they think it's fun. They look forward to it.

00:14:59:04 - 00:15:24:01
Ed Gillentine
That's awesome. There's a scripture that says more blessed to give than receive, and it really is fun to give, even though initially as you're, I don't know, building that muscle right. You may be like and I could have gotten, in my case a GI Joe or whatever at the time maybe it's I think our kids love switch games now, so you have to give up something.

00:15:24:01 - 00:15:55:09
Ed Gillentine
But it is it is interesting how and how enjoyable that it is. If you could think about like whether it's with your clients and obviously protect their privacy of a story that sort of encapsulates what you're talking about, whether it's a child or an adult. And while I give you a second to think about that, one of the things that we've done a lot of similar things with our children and you know, in that early stages is trying to teach them generosity, right?

00:15:55:09 - 00:16:17:14
Ed Gillentine
So I remember them being pretty small. Our daughter loved dolphins and she had seen a nonprofit down at the beach. And so we said, would you like to give? And and she said, I want to give it to the dolphin place. Well, I knew that dolphin place was not very effective. Right. But when she was five, we didn't really worry about that.

00:16:17:16 - 00:16:42:23
Ed Gillentine
We went ahead and said, yes, let's give money there. But now that she's 13, we started introducing the idea, okay, is this sustainable? Are they here? They have research behind what they're doing with these dolphins. And so I think it's a growing process depending on their age and maturity. And and I'll never forget, Meg, I think I might have mentioned this to you last than we talked our middle.

00:16:43:00 - 00:16:58:23
Ed Gillentine
You know, we were talking through Christmas time. Who do you want to give to bring in several charities. How much do you want to give? Because mommy and daddy will. We're going to match it. And she said she just pushed the whole pile. I want to give it up. And we were like, Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:16:58:23 - 00:17:21:20
Ed Gillentine
Don't know. You need to think about this. And as those words were coming out of my mouth, I was thinking, wait a second, try to teach generosity. She's incredibly generous and I'm telling her to dial it back to who's not learning very well. So children teach us a lot, and I'm super excited about the book because it's going to generate conversations, right?

00:17:21:23 - 00:17:44:03
Meg George
Crazy ones. I hope so. But great company. I love that story about your daughter. I told someone, you told me that story, and I do. And I told someone that story recently because I'm like, It just goes to show you that kids are born, like, so open and so loving and like such sponges, and they have to learn these life lessons along the way.

00:17:44:03 - 00:17:58:17
Meg George
But I think that they are genuinely excited about giving their money away, that it's just not a consideration like it would be for any kind of adult. I think that's such a funny story.

00:17:58:19 - 00:18:12:05
Ed Gillentine
Yeah. Can you think of a story that you could share with our listeners that I don't know, you go back to when you like, you know, that Nailed the reason I'm doing what I do.

00:18:12:07 - 00:18:39:19
Meg George
Yeah. So two things. One is there's a family who gives really locally I would say. So this idea of hyper local giving became extremely prevalent around COVID one community is we're like, Hey, if you live here or if you play here, we need you. And like wherever you're hunkering down or wherever you live and you want your kids to grow up, make some investments here.

00:18:39:19 - 00:19:26:10
Meg George
And so we did see a real shift, I feel like, into the local schools and hospitals and community kind of public society benefit type of organizations, human services organizations. In fact, for years and years, the USA Giving Foundation in conjunction with the Lilly School of Philanthropy, has tracked the philanthropic activity in our country. We're so lucky to have that data to look back on and last year, giving is the first time I really noticed that religion is always first, but education is typically second and education is listed third now for 2022 is charitable gifts and financial services organizations were listed second, and that's really fascinating.

00:19:26:10 - 00:19:59:08
Meg George
It also lends itself to my story, which is to say that this family is a more prominent family in their region. I feel like they're not socially motivated, but they're well known. And their daughter, who is in high school, said she wanted to be a part of the giving. And we ultimately worked with them on about 10% of the money that they're going to give away every year to be allocated at their daughter's direction, which is such a great model.

00:19:59:08 - 00:20:31:23
Meg George
It's something that I really like to help facilitate and be a part of. And she chose an organization in that is an international organization in Africa, and she used her skills on the Internet, which are far surpassed my skills or her parents skills on research and finding and she was using Instagram and she just found these organizations that meant the mission meant so much to her.

00:20:31:24 - 00:21:09:15
Meg George
And because it was going to benefit girls, her age really living in poverty, it spoke directly to her soul. And that's what matters, especially with children. But really people giving away their money at any age. My husband always says, like, where is the intellectual connection and where's the emotional connection? If you're thinking about giving your money away, like, let's just identify how those two things are coming together for you to feel like this is really fulfilling and meaningful so that she really taught her parents so much about something that was going on in Africa that is a huge passion project of hers.

00:21:09:15 - 00:21:33:07
Meg George
And this family happens to give through a private family foundation. So for any listeners who feel like they hear about that and they hear about donor advice funds or these kind of different ways of giving, like you mentioned earlier, it's a little more complicated now. Private foundations do require you to file a 990, and any of us can look up that information online and have access to it.

00:21:33:07 - 00:22:00:08
Meg George
So if you Google a family's name with the word Foundation 990, you might see how much money they have in their foundation and what they gave away last year, who they pay on a salary and all of that interesting intel. So for her, it's really fascinating because she's in high school now, but ultimately, I'm sure she'll play a really significant role within that foundation.

00:22:00:08 - 00:22:31:13
Meg George
Maybe she'll even pull a salary from that foundation. And we know that they are required by law to give away 5% of the total value of that foundation. And so we can see based on the assets, how much money these people need to give away. And it's significant and it will probably continue to be even more significant as her parents experience some triggering events around their business and reach a different kind of age and professional maturity too.

00:22:31:15 - 00:23:01:02
Meg George
So I love what they've done and I've loved being a part of that because I can see how the philanthropic priorities from that foundation will change by generation, but to something else that's beautiful and that is really meaningful to them. And they have grown to appreciate and admire and love her philanthropy just as she is coming to understand even more every year why investing in the community where she lives feels really important too.

00:23:01:02 - 00:23:03:10
Meg George
So we learn a lot about each other.

00:23:03:12 - 00:23:03:20
Ed Gillentine
A lot.

00:23:03:21 - 00:23:27:09
Meg George
My other thing that I think is really important to share is that children become kind of these community or social innovators when they are presented with philanthropic opportunities. And I'm doing a project right now in conjunction with my book launch at a school here in downtown West Palm Beach, the Green School, and they have a 10th grade class.

00:23:27:09 - 00:23:51:15
Meg George
So I'm donating $1,500 from the proceeds of my book to the class to give away. And I go, I've gone, I guess, once a week now, the last few weeks and again this Friday to teach them about healthy nonprofit, how to do due diligence, and all of them presented on their organization that they found in research. And we've whittled it down to three organizations.

00:23:51:20 - 00:24:11:10
Meg George
But the first time I went and told them about this project, we were going to do, one girl, one student, young woman, said, You know, the member of West Palm Beach was just here a few weeks ago and she's facing her classmates. And she said he mentioned that workforce, housing and homelessness are two huge issues in our city.

00:24:11:15 - 00:24:32:14
Meg George
Do we want to have a conversation about those things? First, if we're trying to address the problem? This is a 10th grader. It blows my mind that young people are so curious about how to improve communities and the world at large that we might not even give them enough credit for the way that they think. So I love that story.

00:24:32:14 - 00:24:33:21
Meg George
I think it's so impressive.

00:24:34:02 - 00:24:56:14
Ed Gillentine
Yeah, I love it too. And you've said some things that we could probably do a year's worth of individual podcasts on. I especially love that you talked about the heart. I mean, we asked all of our clients, Why are you on planet Earth? And when you can find in the book that I wrote, it's basically a Venn diagram.

00:24:56:14 - 00:25:22:14
Ed Gillentine
But when you can combine your experience and your expertise and your passion and you can find a philanthropic organization that's right in the center, that sweet spot, as we call it, and it's pretty amazing. So I am really glad you brought that up. Talk about maybe a difficult conversation and that's around Focus. So there are a lot of really, really good organizations out there.

00:25:22:16 - 00:25:46:09
Ed Gillentine
Somebody told me one time, you know, water's an interesting thing. You know, with a river, it can power a city if it's in a swamp, it just grows mosquitoes, right? Is kind of stagnant. And so focus is really important. And we preach that a lot. But it also means you have to walk away from some good organizations. But how do you guys approach that with your clients and in your own family?

00:25:46:15 - 00:26:25:14
Meg George
It is hard. Saying no feels like you're disappointing people or like there's so much pressure to do good and you can't do it all. But I try to tell my clients it will liberate you. When you can say no to places, it doesn't mean forever, but it means a very huge yes to something else. And if we're just impacting five different things at like 20% and you don't really feel like people are stepping up, you're going to feel like your money's wasted and that's a bad feeling because it's not just your money, it's your time and your energy and your compassion.

00:26:25:16 - 00:26:58:22
Meg George
So I tried to model out how even 20 years of giving can look if we stay focused on one thing every few years. And I find very often that once we get on that one thing, they want to stay there because then they realize that they're having tremendous impact and they can see the tangible outcomes and now they want to do even more or they're getting even more innovative, or the people at the nonprofit are getting even more innovative because they see how to steward a gift really well and meaningfully so.

00:26:58:22 - 00:27:42:04
Meg George
I think learning how to say no in order to make a ginormous yes feel impactful is the biggest lesson. And it's the hardest thing. But second to that is really when multiple generations are trying to be philanthropic together and there's a really big distraction around the different ways that there's five different generations giving away money right now. They give away money very differently and not to generalize them, but for the most part, they honestly do have different priorities and grandparents and parents accepting that some things being handed down to their children and grandchildren and they might handle it differently is really challenging.

00:27:42:04 - 00:28:06:18
Meg George
Some of them have began a legacy somewhere that might not be carried out by the younger generations, and that's the biggest challenge I see around focus, is can it be a positive that we have multiple areas of focus for now and that the only constant, the only guarantee in life is it's going to keep changing? So how can we embrace that.

00:28:06:20 - 00:28:32:05
Ed Gillentine
I think is a fascinating point. And I mean, I kind of make up an analogy, but if you go back, I don't know, the early 1900s and I don't know, maybe we needed public transportation and that got people out of poverty. Well, then you want to invest in, I don't know, street cars or wagons or whatever, but if you were still investing in street cars and wagons now, that'd be pretty foolish.

00:28:32:07 - 00:28:56:07
Ed Gillentine
So even within, say, public transportation, you would want your heirs to deal with that differently. Next generation. But what if we found out in 50 years that it's not about transportation, it's about housing that gets people like. So I think it's interesting watching people set up, you know, trusts and foundations and all these things. You can be too rigid.

00:28:56:10 - 00:29:13:08
Ed Gillentine
And it also I saw this a couple of years ago. It communicates it can communicate as that it can communicate to the next generation. You don't trust them. And that's what most parents and grandparents want to communicate. But it's a very real thing.

00:29:13:10 - 00:29:35:09
Meg George
Yes, it's so true. It's just everything in life feels like it comes down to control. This is a lesson I'm definitely on this earth to learn myself, but it's just hard to relinquish control. And I I'm not a psychologist, although maybe in my next life I will be after this practice and advising family.

00:29:35:13 - 00:29:37:15
Ed Gillentine
Psychology and what you do, isn't it?

00:29:37:17 - 00:30:01:04
Meg George
Yeah. And the way people have come into their money really impacts the way that they give it away. So that's also something worth noting, is that generally when people have been philanthropic at huge levels for four generations, it's totally different than someone who's like, well, I'm just realizing I'm really wealthy and I love my college age kids. So learn how to be charitable alongside me here.

00:30:01:05 - 00:30:23:15
Ed Gillentine
Yeah, that's a fascinating conversation that I'm hoping to have with one of the families here in Memphis. Have they done that so well over several generations? But it is different. First generation to second, third, fourth. Talk a little bit about how you help people understand that philanthropy is not just about Bill Gates. Right. Especially talking to your children.

00:30:23:19 - 00:30:49:20
Ed Gillentine
We're going to give a dollar going to $10, going $100. The everyman, philanthropist that I think you and I are both passionate about. Right. We get to work with fairly wealthy people in our careers, but to be able the spread and I think your book is going to have big impact on this to everybody. You know, Memphis is one of the most generous cities in the world relative to tax returns and how they measure that.

00:30:50:01 - 00:31:07:20
Ed Gillentine
But it is fascinating. You go talk St Jude Hospital, some of the big organizations is the $25 gift that funds this. So there's a generosity outside of the bill Gates level of wealth. How do you sort of communicate that?

00:31:07:22 - 00:31:35:01
Meg George
That's interesting. I didn't know that about Memphis, but even just having spent a period of years both in West Palm Beach and Syracuse, you really do come to understand the community is philanthropic culture kind of quickly, I think, and I've always said that we need to stop reserving the word philanthropist for the Bill Gates of our universe because people will think that they are not philanthropists.

00:31:35:01 - 00:32:01:00
Meg George
I have clients who do not consider themselves they would not call themselves a philanthropist, and they are you're nodding along with because you must have the same. And I want people to feel like charity and philanthropy aren't necessarily interchangeable in that we can participate in something, we can participate in an appeal, and we can be kind of transactional with our money.

00:32:01:00 - 00:32:20:20
Meg George
And that's still pretty nice of us. So if you send me five appeals for all the different things in your community and one of them feels like something I would like, I feel pretty good about responding to that. I'm going to do that and I've made a donation, right? But it's a little bit transactional. The person on the other end doesn't have a relationship with me.

00:32:20:22 - 00:32:48:12
Meg George
I want people to have a relation ship with the place that they give their money to. I want that intellectual and emotional connection point, and that's philanthropy to me. So I think that's the question I get asked most often is like, why do you always use the word philanthropy instead of fundraising or philanthropy instead of charity? And it's because philanthropy boils down to love for mankind, making the world a better place, deliberate actions around the improvement of others lives.

00:32:48:12 - 00:33:12:04
Meg George
And what are we doing here if not helping others? That's such a ginormous part of what makes our society move and function well. So I want to introduce this word as something that we can feel really familiar and comfortable with for any age, so that we treat. I think when you use that word, you start to treat the giving a little bit different.

00:33:12:06 - 00:33:38:10
Ed Gillentine
Yes, I think you're right. I think you're right. Those a really well said when you think about sort of the idea of philanthropy for everyone and that mindset, how do people react? You know, I mean, that really resonated with me. You've got clients that give significant amounts, don't consider themselves philanthropists. Yeah. How do you see people react to that when you're talking?

00:33:38:10 - 00:34:10:10
Meg George
Think people are just really surprised. I don't even really like to say that because I don't want to make it seem like the philanthropy space is so small, it's more prominent and talked about more than ever before. But people just seem so often like they don't really know what to say. They're interested in they're interested, they're curious. I think people are inspired and motivated, especially as I've been on a little bit of a publicity tour for this book.

00:34:10:10 - 00:34:36:12
Meg George
I noticed that people with jobs, nothing like mine or yours, are really intrigued by what we do and why we do it and. Want to make it a part of their own families kind of personality and activities. But I'm grateful that there's such an openness to understanding the difference between kind of having somebody $20 because you feel like you should.

00:34:36:12 - 00:35:04:00
Meg George
And yeah, writing a check for 500 because you really want to. And I don't want the world to continue to think that philanthropy is this thing you can choose to do you don't have to do and people just go work at nonprofits if they love animals or support people. And I would. Yeah, yeah. I mean, at the tune of $500 billion a year being given away, this is a serious thing and I want it to be treated as such.

00:35:04:02 - 00:35:29:00
Ed Gillentine
Yeah, and which is another reason with that level of that level of resources, why you want it done, well, right. We've got some significant existential problems, I believe, that are going to take the brightest and best of us working together. So, Meg, one thing that we joke about at our practice is the evil rich person, which we call affectionately the ERP.

00:35:29:02 - 00:36:00:07
Ed Gillentine
There is a stereotype about wealthy people that's negative, and I'm not discounting wealth gap and all these really significant challenges that we have. But in my experience I have found that the clients we get to work with are some of the sweetest, kindest, altruistic, really working hard, and they struggle with walking into a room and being typecast. If will just right off the bat.

00:36:00:12 - 00:36:22:03
Ed Gillentine
And we. Do you you mentioned being a psychologist in your next life. I'm going to do the same thing, right, because you're dealing with a lot of emotions, especially when you're talking second, third, fourth generation and worse. And why do people like me and all of these really, really challenging things? But we spend a lot of time helping people understand.

00:36:22:04 - 00:36:33:22
Ed Gillentine
It is difficult. It's I mean, is is a reality that some people stereotype you, but You got to keep going. How do you all help your clients through that? Because we found it to be a struggle.

00:36:33:24 - 00:36:59:24
Meg George
I see that people who know that they are wealthy and know that other people know they are wealthy do have their guard up around taking visits or conversations with other people. And that's the most practical way that I can help disarm. Because if you on this side who feels like you have your guard up a bit, because why does everybody want to have a conversation with you?

00:37:00:01 - 00:37:23:23
Meg George
It's feeling a little exhausted and frustrated by that. And you on this side are feeling like I'm kind of a pest. I've now bug this person twice. They haven't responded to me. I love to ask them for a gift, but I can't even get close enough to them to have a cup of coffee. Then if I can find myself as a facilitator just to make more one on one introductions between those with means and those who can really benefit from them.

00:37:24:00 - 00:37:44:08
Meg George
That's my job. And that's the best, most effective way that I can use myself to say, Take a conversation with her. She's going to share something I think you'll find very interesting. And she wants to learn what you care about philanthropically. You want people to ask you that. You want to share what your philanthropic priorities are and what motivates you to give.

00:37:44:08 - 00:38:01:16
Meg George
And then I say to the nonprofit, text her, she will respond to you. She needs to know she can trust you. You're not going to share her cell phone number, that you're going to ask her real questions about herself. You're not just going to assume or what you saw in a social magazine. You're going to really dig in about her and see what she wants.

00:38:01:18 - 00:38:17:05
Meg George
You're not going to waste your time. You're going to be really deliberate on how you bring her along on a donor journey, but she's going to give you a chance. And I want to help you be really well prepared. And I want to say to the donor, like, please give her a chance and I'm here to guide you and make sure she's really well prepared.

00:38:17:05 - 00:38:18:16
Meg George
So that's my part.

00:38:18:21 - 00:38:24:10
Ed Gillentine
That's interesting. You know, I forget a lot of times you and I sort of protect our clients, too.

00:38:24:12 - 00:38:25:07
Meg George
Yeah.

00:38:25:09 - 00:38:46:21
Ed Gillentine
And so, you know, you you try to introduce them, but sometimes it goes sideways and that's never any fun. It did remind me, though, Meg, of I think this is coming from an investment background. Most wealthy people will sit down and talk about an investment opportunity. That's the way I've always looked at philanthropy.

00:38:46:23 - 00:38:48:22
Meg George
Like 100%.

00:38:48:24 - 00:39:15:15
Ed Gillentine
Best organization should get the money. And if you, Meg or the donor, you you want a chance to invest in this needle moving organization. And if that's not a fit for you because you have a good advisor and telling you to focus and all this stuff, man, I'm I'm 100% happy you're focusing because all that means is somebody else is going to get involved.

00:39:15:17 - 00:39:16:18
Ed Gillentine
Does that make sense?

00:39:16:20 - 00:39:48:00
Meg George
100%. I feel the exact same way. If we can treat high net worth philanthropists like philanthropic investors, which is what I say at every workshop and to all of my nonprofit clients, then we are so much further ahead than our peers who are just trying to give them an elevator pitch. No, resist the urge to say why you need a donation and take a pause and try and share about your nonprofit like the real business that it is.

00:39:48:06 - 00:40:06:21
Meg George
You stats and figures that both illustrate need and demonstrate your own successes and ability to function well, and then people will respond the same way back to you. So if you present yourself as a serious business, they will present themselves as investors and nothing's better than that when it comes to getting a gift, but.

00:40:06:24 - 00:40:37:09
Ed Gillentine
Much more sustainable too. Yeah, and you know, whenever I have been on a board where I've been on the ask side, I would just always end with, you know what? There are a lot of issues in the world. You're on planet Earth for a reason. I even if you don't give to this organization, I'm happy because I know that that freed up dollars for the organization that you're passionate about because you're focused and it leaves the door open for somebody else that's a better fit for us.

00:40:37:12 - 00:40:46:18
Ed Gillentine
So there's absolutely zero pressure. It also felt a lot better for me, you know, psychologically that I'm just introducing them to an opportunity.

00:40:46:20 - 00:40:49:06
Meg George
Yeah, I know. That's I like the way you said that.

00:40:49:08 - 00:41:10:08
Ed Gillentine
So, yeah, we got to land the plane. We'll go to what I call sort of the lightning round kind of. It's not that bad. Okay, three questions for you. One big one quote and one person. So if you could tell everybody one book that you think they ought to read, it doesn't have to do with philanthropy. It can, but doesn't have to be.

00:41:10:08 - 00:41:13:23
Ed Gillentine
What's one book that you would say you guys ought to read this?

00:41:14:00 - 00:42:03:12
Meg George
I love the book Fair Play by Eve Brodsky. And Eve Brodsky was a philanthropy advisor and before she turned to a New York Times best selling author, her book is featured in Reese Witherspoon's Book Club and on all sorts of prominent kind of channels. It's about domestic labor and equity and households. And Eve says she wrote this book after meeting with so many families about their philanthropy and really playing such a serious psychologic equal role in the facilitation of their gifts that she came to see how a breakdown or a barrier in communication was really at the root of familial problems.

00:42:03:12 - 00:42:41:04
Meg George
And that when one person is carrying the weight of labor and a mental load, it really impacts the rest of the household. So while it's not directly philanthropy related, I gift all of my friends who have significant others. This book and I think that it's the recipe for a beautiful and peaceful, successful household. If you can take the time to see what she wrote and hear her out on how you can organize, who does what and how they do it, so that people in this world all feel like they have a partner.

00:42:41:10 - 00:43:03:09
Ed Gillentine
That's awesome. I love that sounds amazing. I'm going to get it. Although candidly, the problem with doing this, the good thing about doing all these interviews is I got a great book list. The bad news is I don't read fast enough. And so the stack is getting dollar and dollar by my chair. One quote, if you could share one quote with us today, what would that be?

00:43:03:15 - 00:43:24:21
Meg George
My work and personal life motto is Work smarter, not harder. And someone said that to me in like my first three months of my first ever job at LeMoyne College. And it stuck true to me all the time. And I'll even say it to my children when they're trying to figure something out and they're creating a bigger mess and more problems and more frustration.

00:43:24:21 - 00:43:39:04
Meg George
And I think if everyone considers how they can find just a couple of things every single day in their life to do in a smarter way, not a harder way, we can save ourselves some time and energy. So I'll keep it simple.

00:43:39:06 - 00:43:44:21
Ed Gillentine
I love that. I love that. All right. One person who's significantly influenced your life and why.

00:43:44:23 - 00:43:47:01
Meg George
Oh, I wasn't prepared for this one.

00:43:47:04 - 00:43:49:03
Ed Gillentine
But that's not an easy one.

00:43:49:05 - 00:44:20:07
Meg George
No, the one I know, one person. This is like my sensitive soul searching for, you know, all of the people who I think about every single day. But I've learned the most about parenting and having fun and how to do my job. From my husband and I, we have the opportunity to work together every single day. And I know a lot of people joke to me, including our own siblings and parents say, you guys are crazy.

00:44:20:07 - 00:44:40:15
Meg George
I don't know how you do it, but it's all we've ever known. We really enjoy it. And if I didn't work with him, I don't know exactly what I would be doing. I think part of what makes us enjoy this so much is that we're constantly asking for one another opinion and to weigh in on a client or help with a client.

00:44:40:17 - 00:45:03:01
Meg George
And then a certain time of the day comes and we have to switch into parenting and making dinner and unpacking backpacks. And it's not to say that that's all easy to do together, especially with your spouse. We spend a lot of time together, but he has impacted my life. My life is so much richer than I ever dreamed it would be when I was a child, and I'm very thankful to him for that.

00:45:03:03 - 00:45:24:15
Ed Gillentine
It's pretty high praise. I've always thought when people say their spouses are like their parents. I mean those people know you really well. And and so that's that's pretty high praise we may have to have. We have to interview him just because of that. So yeah, thanks for sharing. Where can our listeners go to learn more about you, your company, the book.

00:45:24:21 - 00:45:57:09
Meg George
Georgephilanthropy.com and MegTGeorge.com is where people can find anything about me. Those same handles on social media or on LinkedIn where we can also be found. I try to post a lot about my personal essays, my journey with motherhood and imposter syndrome, working with my spouse, maybe t Jorge dot com. So if those kinds of things resonate, there will be a link on November 15th to buy my book.

00:45:57:09 - 00:46:24:18
Meg George
And at least at the onset, all of the books will have a bookmark and the books of old on my site will have a dust jacket. But there will also be other copies available on Amazon too. And if this is something that ends up on the list for your children, as you think about the generosity at the end of the year, I'm so very grateful for you to introduce that to your family and consider bringing Filomena into your lives.

00:46:24:20 - 00:46:48:06
Ed Gillentine
Awesome. And I will say to our listeners in my cyber stalking of Meg while we were doing research for this, it is one of the best. And I mean, this is one of the best websites for philanthropy that I've seen. We like to make ours a resource center and I think you've done that really well, and I liked your blog, your other website too, with this more personal stories.

00:46:48:06 - 00:47:14:24
Ed Gillentine
It was you really did a good job and it was a lot of fascinating stuff. So I think I cannot tell you how grateful I am for you joining us. I also can't express how excited I am for the book, how needed it is, and how I'm sort of envisioning a bunch of young kids reading this, whether it's in class or at home with their parents, especially around this time of year.

00:47:15:01 - 00:47:41:21
Ed Gillentine
I'm hoping that it'll really blow up and that it will be a household name also. Thanks to our listeners, hopefully this has been super helpful to you. I would encourage you to go to Mags websites and check those out. They're super powerful. You can also go to EdGillentine.com. We like to think it's a great, great resource for impact articles, white papers, those sorts of things.

00:47:41:23 - 00:48:00:03
Ed Gillentine
You can also purchase the book Journey to Impact printed or on any major digital platform through our website or Amazon.com or Barnes and Noble. Please leave a review. We value your feedback and we do our best to tailor the shows to what you want to hear. Again, thanks for listening and all. Next time, all the best.