068: Building Sustainability - Allison Karnes

Allison Karnes returns in this episode to discuss the need for sustainability in an organization. She is the founder of WRAPS, which you can learn about in Episode 67. Because WRAPS gives away a lot its products to those in need, she chose to produce and sell other goods and run a cafe to create additional streams of revenue to run the ministry rather than allowing it to be solely dependent on donations. 

Show Links

Ed Gillentine:
EdGillentine.com
Instagram: @journey.to.impact

WRAPS:
Facebook

Donate to WRAPS:
Global Outreach
The Forsaken Children

Books:
Journey To Impact by Ed Gillentine
Built to Last by Jim Collins
Good to Great and the Social Sectors by Jim Collins

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:18:22
Ed Gillentine
Welcome to the Journey to Impact podcast. I'm your host, Ed Gillentine, and we've got a special treat today because we get to have Allison Karnes back with us as the founder and director of WRAPS for Girls in Ethiopia. Pumped to have you back pumped about the topic. Welcome, Allison. Thank you. We are on our last podcast number 67.

00:00:18:22 - 00:00:43:04
Ed Gillentine
We got to hear sort of the the big story of WRAPS for girls and and we we really wanted to have her back and talk about sustainability. So this is something Allison is passionate about and we're just going to dive a little bit deeper. But if this your first time, listen to the podcast, go back and listen to episode number 67 is the one for last month and you'll get some background on the discussion today and I think it'll be a lot more meaningful.

00:00:43:06 - 00:01:10:00
Ed Gillentine
But Allison, just to sort of get a running start for you, I'm going to set it up a little bit. So WRAPS for girls. Allison started really on a shoestring and you just kind of sort of like we did with Island Harvest. Are you just trying to figure it out as you go? But, I mean, it's kind of one of those, I don't want to say rags to riches, but like you go from shoestring nothing idea to something that's really, really having a lot of impact and it's not an easy journey.

00:01:10:00 - 00:01:41:21
Ed Gillentine
And so I suspect we're going to hear that she learned as much, if not more, through failures and mistakes than anything else. But it's sustainability is super important. It's something that Allison and I sort of share a passion for. I mean, not to steal from Allison's time, but I mean, I can't tell you how many organizations I've seen, whether it's in my hometown of Memphis, in Ethiopia, around the globe that may become charging in with this idea of a dream or I'm doing it on faith, which there is a place for that, right, Allison?

00:01:41:21 - 00:02:04:11
Ed Gillentine
But like, it's there's got to be more are you can end up hurting more than you help to steal Brian Vickers phrase so I'm going to shut up and I want to hear from you, Allison, about your journey. But talk to us about sustainability and why it's so important. And then sort of y'all's journey on sort of this path to sustainability.

00:02:04:14 - 00:02:28:17
Allison Karnes
Well, years ago when we first started rap Star was in 2014. I could see that it was going to grow. I had one of those my goodness moments. What are we going to do? This thing is going to be huge. And at that point in time, my husband and I were pretty much supporting the work, along with my partner in Giga and Gabbard Rock from Norway and her husband, Carl.

00:02:28:19 - 00:02:47:22
Allison Karnes
So between the two families, the money was coming in just from us, and I could see that we were going to reach a point where this was not sustainable. We couldn't keep doing this. I was going to have to become a fund raiser, which is that's not a bad thing. And I'm I have a huge amount of faith, by the way.

00:02:47:22 - 00:03:07:20
Allison Karnes
So I really do believe that God provides for us and he wants to bless us. And I knew that I was working in an area that is dear to the father's heart, and that was with orphans and widows and girls. It really marginalized people on the planet. So I knew that I was in the father's holy. Well, I just want to stress that.

00:03:07:20 - 00:03:30:05
Allison Karnes
And I believe that he probably would have given me everything I need to continue that ministry. But I also felt like it was important that we did something to make it more sustainable, something where I wasn't always asking for money. I wasn't just, you know, every month wondering if there would be money coming in to to support the work.

00:03:30:07 - 00:03:58:10
Allison Karnes
So I didn't start really seeking like more sustainability until I work with an organization in Canada called Mothers with a Heart for Ethiopia. Lovely organization. And this is families that adopted Ethiopian children. And they began to work with our with my husband doing funding prolapse surgeries for women. And I got involved with them and they're just lovely, lovely people.

00:03:58:10 - 00:04:16:06
Allison Karnes
And so they wanted to help out. So they began to give me a little bit of money to do outreaches, which was great. But at one point they had someone that was kind of playing devil's advocate with them and saying she needs to become sustainable. What is she doing to become sustainable? How is this how is this going to pan out in the end?

00:04:16:08 - 00:04:33:15
Allison Karnes
And it hurt me, to be honest, a little like sustainable. It was painful to have to be told you need to be sustainable. And then I have a son that works with USAID and he would be on me. What? What are you doing to be sustainable? Mom, where are you going with this? What do you want to do?

00:04:33:15 - 00:05:02:19
Allison Karnes
Where do you want to take this? So I had to really do a lot of thinking and praying where we were going to be sustainable. Okay, So we started small towards sustainability and I'm an idea person. I'm not always a great implementer of ideas, but I'm a great person with ideas. So initially I had the idea to start headbands so we could buy really cool cloth in Africa, not in Ethiopia, however, but on the continent.

00:05:02:19 - 00:05:22:11
Allison Karnes
If I traveled to see my daughter lives in Johannesburg, South Africa. So we traveled there and I buy African cloth. There are any place I happen to be in another African country. I knew friends that were going to kidnap or Uganda or something. I said, Hey, could you get me some African cloth? So I began to sell headbands and they sold really well in the US.

00:05:22:13 - 00:05:43:23
Allison Karnes
So when we would go home to the States and we would talk at different churches, they would allow me to set up a table. And so I would set up a table and I would sell the headbands from the headbands. I got an idea to create dolls. So I went on line and began to really research dolls. And what could we make in Ethiopia that might be attractive and might sell?

00:05:44:00 - 00:06:16:11
Allison Karnes
And I really came up with a darling doll, and we designed it and had, you know, you tweak it and you try to make it nice. But I was determined we were going to make the nicest doll for sale in Ethiopia, and we did. It's really nice. So the doll sold quickly for us in the US. It was very successful, especially again with the diaspora Ethiopian community that grown and with people that have adopted children so that they sold quickly and they've done well for us.

00:06:16:13 - 00:06:36:20
Allison Karnes
The dolls are unique in that we use the dresses are made on a loom in a community about 20 minutes from us, so everything's hand done and these doll, they're really nice. So the dolls were successful. We sell those for $20. So which is nothing in the States. My all my friends are like, This is ridiculous. You need to sell these for more money.

00:06:37:01 - 00:06:56:10
Allison Karnes
But here in Ethiopia, I try to keep them at 20 so Ethiopians can buy them. So from there we began to add other products. Okay, so that was our first road to trying to become sustainable. It generated some income, but not near enough income that we need to run the project. I mean, by no way could we do it.

00:06:56:10 - 00:07:18:08
Allison Karnes
Our clock alone is in the thousands and thousands of dollars a year just to provide the cloth. But, you know, slowly, slowly we did. And of course, I had some very good donors that came in and really gave me money when I was really down. And and I have some donors that have been sustainable, donors, I will say, and they've been lovely.

00:07:18:10 - 00:07:37:02
Allison Karnes
So this went on until about four years ago. I kept I don't know how how this works with you, but I get these ideas and they just kind of stew in me and percolate a little bit. And of the I'll come back to this idea. And I think, gosh, is this really what is this? What you got it?

00:07:37:02 - 00:07:58:12
Allison Karnes
You telling me something? I'm trying to listen. What are you telling me? Let me be open to this. So I began to look for layout to open a cafe. So I was already. This was moving in my head. Let's see, what could we do? I really want to employ more people. My whole idea has always been to employ more marginalized women, to help girls, but really employ more marginalized women.

00:07:58:14 - 00:08:20:19
Allison Karnes
So, for instance, I was I met with several people that were doing the sanitary pads in the US, and they make them in the U.S. and then they send them over here, not in Ethiopia particularly, but in other countries and in a suitcase. And that was not what I wanted to do. I wanted to employ people. I wanted to teach people how to sew.

00:08:20:19 - 00:08:41:01
Allison Karnes
I wanted to create jobs. I wanted to take create a community for women that didn't have a community. So that was important to me. So I knew that if I could do a cafe like this, more jobs, this will make money. I've never done anything like this in my life. Don't get me wrong, I'm a very good cook.

00:08:41:03 - 00:08:44:09
Allison Karnes
That's about as far as it goes. But I'm a very good idea.

00:08:44:10 - 00:08:46:19
Ed Gillentine
This background or anything like that?

00:08:46:21 - 00:09:10:05
Allison Karnes
None whatsoever. My husband was, you know, practicing at a position that was his. He had a little business, but now no business. Now I have a son in business now, but it's really not something I've never done. Yeah. So I had the it was a huge learning curve. I'm not kidding you. So anyway, so I would I would go and I'd look at land and I dream and I think, this would be a great place.

00:09:10:05 - 00:09:32:09
Allison Karnes
Could we do this? But again, it was going to take so much money if I bought land. So what how it all came about was one day I was having dinner with my friends and Dwayne and Jackie Anderson, and Dwayne has been out here. It's sort of Christian hospital for 19 years, almost the length of time the hospital's been in existence.

00:09:32:11 - 00:09:52:22
Allison Karnes
And he so they were wanting to get someone new to run the cafe. And I mean, I just said, I'll do it, too. I mean, I didn't even think. I just said, perhaps we'll do it, we'll do it. And he looked at me, said, You, you're sure you want to do this? I was absolutely. We've got this. We'll do it at that.

00:09:52:22 - 00:10:15:23
Allison Karnes
I mean, that just came out of nowhere and that that you can have the stress disorders. What are you thinking? What you know, God is so good. God is so good. So we began to investigate how we would do this and began to just really explore the cafe. How was it working there? What were the things we could do to change it?

00:10:16:00 - 00:10:39:07
Allison Karnes
And then we met with a designer who had done some cool work in town. I can you does some really cool woodwork. And he met with us and he gave me a price. That was it was reasonable. And I thought, we can do this with around $17,000 to redo the hospital. And then the hospital said, We'll step in and help you.

00:10:39:09 - 00:10:59:18
Allison Karnes
Okay. So with the hospital coming in under us and saying, okay, we'll do this. So they they put the roof on, they paid for the floor, they put up the steel girders for me. They provide the electricity, the electrician, the plumber. I think I did my own. No, I paid the painter out of my own pocket. But things like that.

00:10:59:20 - 00:11:23:19
Allison Karnes
The hospital was fantastic to step in and really help. And I had some great people behind me that were working with the facility team here at the hospital. I really couldn't have been a better situation. And then culverts came, so. So kind of put a kibosh on everything. We just slowed everything down. I was stuck in the States.

00:11:23:21 - 00:11:51:14
Allison Karnes
They didn't want us to come back because it was too dangerous. And, you know, we didn't have any way to, you know, the oxygen and the things that they were needing in the U.S. They just said if you're the US, stay in the U.S. don't come back until things kind of get better. So the café, I felt like in many ways that was a huge blessing for us because we hadn't opened and the cafe at that point that they were very limited, what they could do that everyone was asking and they didn't want to have any contact.

00:11:51:14 - 00:12:10:16
Allison Karnes
And so in a way I felt really fortunate for COVID, funny as it is, but I did. But then later we began to, you know, when we were cleared to come back, we began to do the serious work and the construction. And it was a long, long, drawn out process.

00:12:10:18 - 00:12:26:01
Ed Gillentine
By having it done and having hired everybody and then COVID and you would in essence, either had to fight it with their money because they couldn't make enough money. It just you had to shut down the business part of it that.

00:12:26:01 - 00:12:41:19
Allison Karnes
Had to shut down the business. And so while you never can shut down a café in a hospital, so I don't know how we would have done it, but we managed to do it and it but it took us almost two years to build the cafe. The hospital workers who would come to the cafe just said, We're calling this Noah's Ark.

00:12:41:19 - 00:13:00:10
Allison Karnes
Now because this is ridiculous. It's this side. Like, I don't know, it's awful. So we met outside in little tents, and while we were building it, my workers were jumping over rocks and stones to try to deliver coffee and tea. And our menu was very limited. But slowly, slowly, I could see we were going to make money.

00:13:00:14 - 00:13:01:11
Ed Gillentine
Yeah, I had.

00:13:01:11 - 00:13:23:24
Allison Karnes
Someone come that owned a cafe in town. He said, Don't get discouraged, you're going to make money. And that was really a nice word for us. And then we also had just this lovely Muslim man. We've gone to him a couple of times just to investigate his cafe, his cafe, because it was kind of at the same price level where we were going to come in at.

00:13:24:01 - 00:13:42:09
Allison Karnes
And we wanted to know how did he do it, you know, what were his prices, how are you taxing? And just so many things and he came to us and he was so kind. And he said, you know, I came to Soweto and I didn't know anybody and nobody really helped me build this cafe. But he said, I want to help you be successful.

00:13:42:09 - 00:13:49:07
Allison Karnes
Isn't that fantastic? And so he went to our Goat Man, and he just was just lovely to help.

00:13:49:07 - 00:14:10:12
Ed Gillentine
Out at that. Be a sad story in itself in terms of sort of Muslim, Christian, Jewish relationships. Like, I do feel like business builds relationships, but what a remarkable guy in a very competitive industry that was absolutely fair and basically his secrets with you. That's pretty typical.

00:14:10:18 - 00:14:34:22
Allison Karnes
He shared his secrets. He was just so helpful. And he his family, it was were serious Muslims. At one point he I How do you say that? I mean, they were very devout Muslims. You know, lives were fully covered, which I was surprised. I met his wife. He actually came in as a patient. They had stomach issues and he came and he wanted people to know he was in the hospital.

00:14:34:24 - 00:15:00:03
Allison Karnes
And we came and we ministered to him. And his wife was there and she was in a full hijab, which I was surprised because I didn't think that way because he was all sweet and helpful and wonderful and kind and loving to us. So it's been a really neat relationship we've had with him. He like when we went to open the bakery, we didn't know who to hire, but in our community, I think he prayed.

00:15:00:08 - 00:15:17:06
Allison Karnes
Almost in all of Ethiopia, the bakers are Muslim. And he said, okay, I'm going to get you a He so gave me two bakers to interview and the one which goes, he said, You got the best guy. He said, You're going to be so happy. And we are. We love what we love. Yeah, that's how we kind of started.

00:15:17:08 - 00:15:19:24
Ed Gillentine
I mean, there's so much to chase down and.

00:15:20:01 - 00:15:20:10
Allison Karnes
Yeah.

00:15:20:12 - 00:15:46:11
Ed Gillentine
I want to keep it on the topic of sustainability. Although I did scribble in my notes, a story you made the comment about, you know, employing Ethiopians, Ethiopian women in particular, but the community that it brings and the the purpose that it can bring and I just people don't talk about that enough. When you think about sustainability, I feel like there's there's a lot of different ways to do.

00:15:46:12 - 00:15:58:03
Ed Gillentine
You mentioned donors. You said something like donors can be good. Absolutely. I think that sometimes people think sustainability means no donors. I've found there's almost always kind of a hybrid.

00:15:58:05 - 00:16:00:00
Allison Karnes
That's encouraging to me to hear that.

00:16:00:02 - 00:16:24:13
Ed Gillentine
Yeah, so you can get sustainable donors, right? And that's one of the things we love to do in our work. Like you can use a donor advice fund and let's just say somebody wanted to support reps for girls, but they wanted to do it and sustainable fashion and they wanted to do it for ten years and they wanted you to know that, look, it's not dependent on how much money I make.

00:16:24:18 - 00:16:48:00
Ed Gillentine
You can count on $50,000 a year for the next ten years, and then we'll revisit it. Well, they could put whatever that comes out to, $500,000 in a donor based fund. And you know, it's there. And they can give it. And from the donors perspective, get tax deductions. there's a psychological piece on the donor side that you're doing something that's sustainable, that is strategic.

00:16:48:00 - 00:17:19:09
Ed Gillentine
It's not just going to go away. And then, of course, for the donor also, what happens if you have a civil war and you're in the cafe just goes away? Right. That's beyond anybody's control, right? Well, they don't have to keep sending money down there to something that's failed or whatever. So and so. So you can have donors who are you know, I love employing local people, particularly in crazy poverty, and I love employing women.

00:17:19:14 - 00:17:44:10
Ed Gillentine
And that's its own story. So you've got the local piece, but then you've got the business piece. You know, when you think about what you guys are doing in the cafe, what percentage and this may be a little bit too personal, so feel free to say, I'm not going to tell you, but what what percentage of yours income would you say comes from like the dolls in the cafe?

00:17:44:10 - 00:17:48:17
Ed Gillentine
Other sustain viable projects? And is it gross?

00:17:48:19 - 00:17:55:11
Allison Karnes
Yeah. Okay. That's a good question. And I can't give you, you know, like factual numbers. I can give you an idea.

00:17:55:16 - 00:17:55:22
Ed Gillentine
Yeah.

00:17:55:23 - 00:18:29:02
Allison Karnes
Part of the cafe is a huge success. I can't stress that enough. So we make so much money in the cafe that I can't compare it to the dolls and the backpacks and the things like that, because the money coming in is in the thousands of dollars where the products that we sell are in the hundreds of dollars, you know, and those primarily we make our money in the bazaars at Christmas time in Addis Ababa, they run a lot of bazaars.

00:18:29:02 - 00:18:52:18
Allison Karnes
It's become quite the moneymaker for different organizations because they charge so much for a table. Yeah. So we do the bazaars and that they're good, they're good for us. And then we have a lot of expats that visit our hospital. So I keep all of our items available for them because everything we make is high quality. So if you're buying one of our backpacks, they're really nice, really nice.

00:18:52:23 - 00:19:12:19
Allison Karnes
My grandchildren, they're like, Load them up and take them to school. And and they do. They're just fabulous. So they, they buy from us, which is wonderful. I do bring some things home with me when I go back to the U.S., but that's hard, you know, to always be carrying things back and forth across the water. And I don't like to do that.

00:19:12:21 - 00:19:33:13
Allison Karnes
I'd like to, you know, try to do more and more marketing here. And out of that, I do have a marketer that we've employed in Addis Ababa, and she's amazing. So she's sold a lot of product for us. That's not in the bazaar. Yeah, but it's still not enough. So we really don't make a lot of money, maybe 4% to make ten.

00:19:33:14 - 00:20:03:11
Allison Karnes
Maybe ten would be really probably a high number. But the cafe is generating all of our salaries now, and that's huge. Salaries are a little over $3,000 a month, and I know that's low by American standards. So if you're American listeners, you're right. But but Ethiopian standards, we employ 44 people. And of those 44 people, probably 40 of them are full time employees.

00:20:03:13 - 00:20:05:02
Ed Gillentine
And how many would you say are women?

00:20:05:04 - 00:20:25:11
Allison Karnes
Of my 44, I have one two guards. So their male, a baby who is my Ethiopian son, and the cafe's it has to be in somebody's name. It's actually in his is whether I have a macchiato, man. So that's these four And then my bakers four or five, six, six.

00:20:25:17 - 00:20:29:21
Ed Gillentine
Everybody else is female. Female. That's I mean, that's remarkable. I mean.

00:20:29:23 - 00:20:36:20
Allison Karnes
It's hard for her to I could hire an accountant last month. So my accountant right now he's part time two.

00:20:36:22 - 00:21:00:03
Ed Gillentine
Yeah, it's, yeah, it's hard for people to understand in the Ethiopian context and I would guess around the world, like everything you said, is difficult to do times ten over there. But I remember at our farm there was a, there was a like a drought was pretty bad. And we've you know, we have 40, 50,000 apple trees and it was the early days.

00:21:00:03 - 00:21:26:19
Ed Gillentine
So no, there was no irrigation really and the trees were baby tree like they really got to have their water and, and I remember seeing it was I feel like it's probably 30 or 40 women just, I mean basically envision of 5 to 5 gallon buckets and they were carrying in the mouth there thousands of those trees. It was back breaking hard hard work and they sang the whole time.

00:21:26:21 - 00:21:55:00
Ed Gillentine
As I recall, it was like Ethiopian sort of what we would call over here, maybe a praise and worship song. This I mean, it was one of the most stunning things. But what it showed me very starkly in a country where women, especially in rural areas, are still beasts of burdens, in many respects, they're just there to give them that dignity, to actually give them first dibs over the males, which upset many of the men there.

00:21:55:02 - 00:22:21:16
Ed Gillentine
But to give them first dibs to to to honor them and their humanity and then to see that community them coming together was just mind boggling. So for you and I think we had maybe 55% female out of, say, 150, But I mean, your percentage is super high and you found a industry that you can employ almost 100% women.

00:22:21:16 - 00:22:47:12
Ed Gillentine
So you think about your mission. And I think sustainability has got to come in there because I do. I see this is my tendency. Alison. I want it to be sustainable, that I will hammer a business sort of model into an organization that doesn't really fit to what you're doing, is you've kind of line them all up and it fits your organization.

00:22:47:14 - 00:23:02:22
Ed Gillentine
So I mean, to me that's remarkable. And to give them jobs a paycheck, if you will, I mean, every two weeks. I mean, that that is hard and rare in Ethiopia.

00:23:02:24 - 00:23:35:12
Allison Karnes
You know, it is. I want to give credit, though. I don't know how well I could have done had I not had the hospital. I had a built in clientele. All right. I had built in generators. I have built in plumbers and electricians that are willing to come and help me. I've over the years, I've cultivated a lovely relationship with our facility team because I've worked with them in the beginning, doing gardening and planting flowers and landscaping and such.

00:23:35:12 - 00:23:59:00
Allison Karnes
And so I was really close to that team anyways. But I just want to say that for those people listening, I had an advantage and that I came into a situation of an already constructed hospital with a fabulous generator and kind of a grant that I could afford. They were very kind to me. They're going to raise it, I think.

00:23:59:00 - 00:24:18:08
Allison Karnes
But they were very kind to me starting out. So they and they believed in what I'm doing and they believe in regs and what we're doing. So that's been wonderful. But I really had some unique advantages that, for instance, the people in SODO that are trying to create a cafe don't because the proposal all the time.

00:24:18:10 - 00:24:18:17
Ed Gillentine
Are the.

00:24:18:17 - 00:24:37:11
Allison Karnes
Water goes off and so you are trying to build. I went they just put a little ice cream machine in town just this month and that's been a big deal. It's never ever been ice cream and soda. The market. I went to go have an ice cream. All right. But there was no power, right? So she had to wait because she couldn't run the machine.

00:24:37:11 - 00:24:49:07
Allison Karnes
She didn't have a generator. She had to wait for the power to go back. Yeah. So that's what they're up against, is there's that one power. And I don't face that. And I'm so grateful every day of my.

00:24:49:07 - 00:25:13:06
Ed Gillentine
Which is a reminder of just how challenging outside the developed world it is to do almost anything from brushing your teeth. Like I was trying to explain to my children, like when you brush your teeth, it's a little stressful over there because, yeah, if you're not paying attention, you're going to turn the faucet all brown your toothbrush through there and get something out of the water versus using a bottle of water or have it set up.

00:25:13:08 - 00:25:37:04
Ed Gillentine
I do want to go back to what you said about the hospital helping because so I would also say, Alison, God gave you the wisdom to see a business opportunity, but you got captive clients, if you will. So that's a blessing. But nobody else did it. Right. And so I think God gives you an hour, probably similar. We probably stumble into most of our successes.

00:25:37:04 - 00:25:58:15
Ed Gillentine
So but you realized, hey, that's a way to hedge your bets in Ethiopia. I mean, holy smokes, having been over there 15 to 20 years, that old power generator, I mean, that's a humongous deal. The fact that you so you got all of that. So I would say for somebody thinking about sustainability, that's why you kind of want to bring in you call them devil's advocates.

00:25:58:17 - 00:26:13:07
Ed Gillentine
Those business minded people don't let them take over the the ministry or the the nonprofit side of it. But they have a lot of they have a lot of wisdom there. And I think that happened in your case.

00:26:13:09 - 00:26:30:12
Allison Karnes
It did. And I'm fortunate and I'm fortunate I listened, you know, and I did. And I just had a big meeting last week with a team of people that are behind me and they play devil's advocate again with me and sent me the notes. And it was so good.

00:26:30:12 - 00:26:33:20
Ed Gillentine
Hard to listen. Yes. yeah, yeah.

00:26:33:22 - 00:26:52:05
Allison Karnes
Yeah. But bull. Absolutely. Because I need that. Yeah. A lot of people like, you're doing so good. You're doing so good. This is so great. And these people said you're doing really good. Have you thought about this? Yeah. You know, and that I need that. I need people speaking into what we're doing. So I was appreciative.

00:26:52:07 - 00:27:19:05
Ed Gillentine
So let's talk about the hospital and let's use them as a like as a donor concept and the idea of investing. So if I'm a donor and I see a café like you have and it's doing all those things that I'm passionate about from will call it my nonprofit perspective, I want to help my altruistic perspective, my calling from God in my case because of my faith journey.

00:27:19:07 - 00:27:45:00
Ed Gillentine
Sure. But if I see that and I'm like, holy smokes, this lady and her team are doing it, they're having impact. And if I gave them $25,000 for two generators so then they could have an ice cream machine or whatever that makes more money, employs more people and gets more girls trained on health and hygiene and all this stuff and I got it.

00:27:45:00 - 00:28:05:15
Ed Gillentine
I get to make $25,000 investment. It's likely that that will pay for itself to the organization. That is a way different proposition to a donor than you saying you know what I'd like to to ask you for $25,000 donation, it's going to go for salaries or whatever. And you and I know you're coming back next year asking. Right.

00:28:05:20 - 00:28:11:13
Ed Gillentine
Versus maybe sort of a jaywalking like like catalytic type of.

00:28:11:15 - 00:28:37:17
Allison Karnes
Thing happened to me. And this is an interesting story. So when the cafe opened, you can imagine there's a lot of expenses getting a cafe going. And we were trying to do everything on the on the market and the on the Ethiopian market, buying stoves, Ethiopian made stoves and things like that. This organization in Canada raises money of a big, big, funny fundraiser and they have some big donors.

00:28:37:19 - 00:28:59:04
Allison Karnes
And anyways, this unknown donor would not would not give me this person's name. He and his wife from the state of Michigan, which is my home state. So they weren't even Canadians. He just said, I want to bless this cafe. I believe in what she's doing. And he gave me they gave me $17,000 to buy. First. They wanted to know, what do we need for that cafe?

00:28:59:04 - 00:29:18:19
Allison Karnes
And I needed I needed a better industrial stove, I needed some workspace, I needed a mixer. So I listed all the things and it was a lot of money here. It's not like in the U.S. because you're paying the customs and everything brought in and they're going to get your custom with, you know, 80% customs or 100 sometimes.

00:29:18:21 - 00:29:56:00
Allison Karnes
So I gave them a whole list, narrowed it down. They were really particular. They wanted to know everything, why it was going to cost. I went and did all the research, went into Addis Ababa, went to the shops, wrote everything down, then gave them a detailed list, and they gave me everything I asked for. And because of that, we were able to really upgrade our facilities and the cafe to where we had, you know, this great industrial stove which we can, you know, cook on like crazy with an oven that I can bake in during the day and stainless steel countertops and, you know, the mixers and all the things we needed to make us

00:29:56:00 - 00:30:17:21
Allison Karnes
a better cafe, you know, which it has. I mean, our bakery is amazing. We sell bread to the hospital. We have a standing order with the hospital to bake patient bread. And I really foresee that that's going to even get better. I've got some ideas that are percolating right now for the bakery, So yeah, so I just that's a donor that I've met.

00:30:17:22 - 00:30:30:01
Allison Karnes
I could even think, yeah, we did a video and send it to, to the group in Canada who then passed it on to these generous people in Michigan. But I don't even know their name yet.

00:30:30:03 - 00:30:50:10
Ed Gillentine
And I think they're my observation is there are a lot of wealthy people, which is who we work with generally in our career that I'm at that are and generous and they want to do that stuff. But they are kind of tired because like most wealthy people are kind of on a list, right? It's this list in the sky.

00:30:50:11 - 00:31:12:18
Ed Gillentine
I don't know where it comes from, but it's a very real list. And they're getting hit up for money, you know, all the time. And they're looking for opportunities that are really going to have impact. And the idea to typically a business type man or woman is man. If I'm investing in something, I'm in it. I hate expenses, but I love investing.

00:31:12:20 - 00:31:38:22
Ed Gillentine
And and I think that's as like we mentioned, donor advised funds and different ways to do things. Even some of those people I know set up businesses because in some countries you can't really have NGOs. They're very difficult to hire. Right. So you set up a business that's got a sustainable social purpose is typically how they're done. So I love sort of your story incorporates all of it right?

00:31:38:22 - 00:32:16:23
Ed Gillentine
And hopefully it's an encouragement. Yeah, they are like ours was a straight up for profit business and there are plenty that are straight up NGOs, right? So you kind of have a hybrid, I think, and I don't know if you see this over there. I feel like I've seen a lot of organizations in not in Ethiopia, but like the U.S. nonprofits that if they're helping children or whatever, they get to charge fees sometimes or like a government, typically local government will pay them if they're helping street kids because that's helping the local town.

00:32:17:00 - 00:32:40:17
Ed Gillentine
So there are ways for nonprofits even to get to charge fees. But anyway, I'm chasing Rabbit. I did want to ask you one specific question. As this has happened and grown, the sustainability has grown. Do you feel kind of a fundraising pressure that's a little bit lower? Does it does it take a little bit off of you knowing, okay, this is going in the right direction, or did it just trade that for a running a business pressure?

00:32:40:19 - 00:33:03:12
Allison Karnes
You know, to be perfectly honest, I haven't done a lot of fundraising. The Lord has sent the people to me and I've been incredibly blessed. It's rare for me to ask for money and my sister and I, our mission that we do here, we're very well funded and we rarely, rarely ask for anything God just has provided for us.

00:33:03:12 - 00:33:28:03
Allison Karnes
So I am right there. I just want to say we're so thankful. That said, if we want to expand and do something, we're really looking at creating diapers. So right now there there are no diapers at this time. Being made in Ethiopia, to my knowledge, are if they are, they're not really highly available. They're not being marketed.

00:33:28:08 - 00:33:29:00
Ed Gillentine
Yeah.

00:33:29:02 - 00:33:51:16
Allison Karnes
So we're looking at the possibility of creating a diaper, but to do that is going to take some funding. I don't have the kind of money it's going to take to do something of that caliber, but I'm not stopping yet. We're we're doing a lot of exploring. We've just met a great importer, an artist that's willing to work with us.

00:33:51:18 - 00:34:15:16
Allison Karnes
So it's going to take importing the cloth. They don't have anything here in the country for us. So that's going to be a whole nother something else I'm just not familiar with. And you remain friends with everything in another language and a complicated language. So it's really art. But we're looking at that. And you know, you have these venture capitalists and they plug in, you know, these millions of dollars to just do these startup companies.

00:34:15:16 - 00:34:37:16
Allison Karnes
And, you know, I don't $1,000,000, but $90,000 probably, or $100,000 to really do it right and make it right. But I have to do a lot more research and think of the product. Can I really sell it? Will people pay for it? Because it has to be a good product, right? So I'm asked all the time, I mean, if we had the United Nations, what an organization is it?

00:34:37:16 - 00:34:54:00
Allison Karnes
Can you guys make diapers? I've got different NGOs and can you make diapers? I can make diapers, but not the quality that we want. We want we really believe in quality. So we're not there yet. But that's that's something where we could really ramp up our employability.

00:34:54:03 - 00:35:13:23
Ed Gillentine
I want to come back to the quality thing, but first let's talk about the reps and the kids that girls get, and I know and I'll give them away. Right. It seems to me I recall in the past, maybe in certain parts of the country or with schools or whatever, you've tried to either get a fee or sell those or whatever.

00:35:14:00 - 00:35:40:15
Ed Gillentine
And even if you haven't talk about how you think about that, there is a portion of that population that not only must you give them, you're compelled to write down to, right? Because they can't afford it. They never will. The impact is way outsized. But then there's also some very, very wealthy people in right in Ethiopia systems and stuff like that.

00:35:40:15 - 00:35:49:02
Ed Gillentine
So have you thought through maybe trying to get some fees or revenue from your core sort of ministry, if you will?

00:35:49:08 - 00:36:08:21
Allison Karnes
You know, it's a good question. And there are actually we're in an organization of groups that are making sanitary pads. We're not the only ones doing it by any means. And there's very good ones being made in Addis Ababa. And that's going to that's going to appeal more to the high end market if people are going to buy them there.

00:36:08:21 - 00:36:41:01
Allison Karnes
There are higher price in mind. They're actually nicer. They're using imported cloth. Kudos to them. Blessing us. I think it's great. What I've found is that the disposable income in this country is very small and people are not going to spend it on sanitary pads that that said, they're just not going to spend it. Yeah. So it's not something that I can sell to the local population, I can sell to NGOs or I can sell to other nonprofit groups.

00:36:41:01 - 00:37:03:02
Allison Karnes
So for instance, my new marketer in Addis, I met with her Saturday. She was here in Soweto, and she said, I'm in contact with a group in Tigray where they've had this horrific war and women have nothing, nothing. And what do you think about getting your pads up to Tigray? Well, the very first people making washable sanitary pads were integrate.

00:37:03:07 - 00:37:25:08
Allison Karnes
Okay, That was a lovely organization, an Ethiopian American that came over and started it. And even USAID helped, you know, help fund them a little bit. I think they were bombed during the war. They lost they lost the factory. So there's nothing up there. And I said, absolutely, absolutely. That would be so exciting to be able to move our kids up to integrate.

00:37:25:11 - 00:37:49:00
Allison Karnes
So that's that's maybe may happen. Yeah. Well, I'm not sure how that's going to work. I'll try. I won't make any money on it, but I would because I'm going to bump the price way down. I do too. That that's an idea. But then yesterday I sent a package up to Baradar at Community up in the north, and they're under some difficult times and they paid for my kids.

00:37:49:02 - 00:38:06:22
Allison Karnes
So this was another nonprofit and they wanted our kids, so they paid for so that, you know, I think it's tough. How how do I want to charge if it's an NGO? They have a lot of money and they're well funded. They're coming out of Great Britain or the United States or something. Absolutely. I don't mind charging them.

00:38:06:22 - 00:38:09:13
Allison Karnes
They've got the money. They're funded to do that.

00:38:09:15 - 00:38:20:01
Ed Gillentine
But but that's I think that's the thing. It's not like if anybody's listening takes that as well. I'm going to, you know, pick on people with more money. But that's what they're funded to do, is to help fund.

00:38:20:01 - 00:38:27:02
Allison Karnes
It to do that. So I'm not doing anything. The men are taking their money away. That's what their funds are for. And they're supposed to spend that money.

00:38:27:03 - 00:38:55:10
Ed Gillentine
They can't do what you're doing. In a sense, it's almost like crowdsourcing it. And so, you know, it actually is a good use of their money. Right. And of course, yeah, another thing that popped into my mind, you're not always trying to make a profit or even cover your expenses if you can defray it. And you sort of obliquely mention that you may not make all the money in the world, probably won't, but let's say it costs you $5 to make a pack or whatever.

00:38:55:10 - 00:39:20:00
Ed Gillentine
I forget what it is, you know, defraying that by a dollar. That's a huge help, right? Right. So I think that's really important. I know we got to land the plane, but I did want to talk to you about quality because that also is a shared passion, also is a as a believer, you know, and I have heard probably all of our lives, well, you know, I'm doing this for God.

00:39:20:00 - 00:39:46:20
Ed Gillentine
I'm doing this for nonprofit reasons. So that allows me to put out crappy stuff and you need to buy it. You know, I just think that's just just terrible, terrible idea. Dr. Kim Tan, who is been pretty influential relative to sort of how I see, I guess see the world. He wrote a book. It's a very small book booklet almost about impact investing.

00:39:47:01 - 00:40:16:23
Ed Gillentine
And he talks about quality. You've probably heard there's a five star like eco resort in South Africa that he bought 20, 30 years ago and his investment group built it up. Everything you talked about, Alison, and created a five star. People come from all over the world to go to this place, but it was actually started to provide jobs, do conservation, all these things is a for profit, right?

00:40:16:23 - 00:40:31:19
Ed Gillentine
And it worked in that sort of set up. But I'm rambling. But talk about why you believe quality is so important with what you do and sort of the the brand and the mission and the ministry that you have.

00:40:31:21 - 00:40:59:14
Allison Karnes
Yeah, that's been drilled into me all my life. Quality matters. Couple of years ago I was at my my daughter's house in South Africa and there was a book on the shelf. I picked it up and it was written about Starbucks and I couldn't put the book down. And it talked. This writer interviewed the owners of Starbucks and how they set up the Starbucks organization.

00:40:59:16 - 00:41:22:20
Allison Karnes
And it just really just got my attention and won. And so I just looked at there's all this DNA about Starbucks and all these things that they really push. And they had something called the book, the Green Book that their staff would have in their their aprons apron book, I think they called it, which got my did. So anyways, I created a book here based on Starbucks and I get Starbucks all the credit in the book.

00:41:22:20 - 00:41:49:00
Allison Karnes
This is not me. One thing they talked about is the DNA of Starbucks and one of the things is everything matters. Everything matters. And I drill that into my employees constantly. Everything matters. Tear that dollar apart. I cannot sell that dollar. It's not the quality that we're going to put out. Or I go up to the cafe and I just can't.

00:41:49:05 - 00:42:18:21
Allison Karnes
Everything matters what people see. It's important. So I, I just believe in quality and I just believe I have a reputation to teach my workers that quality matters. Ethiopians are known. Sometimes I run into there's a lot of great people that do craftwork and art and woodworking and things, and they're very good. But oftentimes their attitude is, it looks okay to me.

00:42:18:23 - 00:42:19:21
Ed Gillentine
It's.

00:42:19:23 - 00:42:40:14
Allison Karnes
Okay to me. And I'm like, No, it doesn't look okay to me. Those corners don't match. This is not done right, you know? But that's an attitude. And I said, we will to allow that attitude in our factory. Well, the pad looks okay to be. No, it doesn't look okay. Rip it out. So I'm real strict about it with my with my stores.

00:42:40:14 - 00:42:53:10
Allison Karnes
So if they you get a backpack from me and it's not done right, we'll give you another backpack. We'll make it right, because I will not sell anything that's not done quality and we're that way. Our standards are very high in the cafe.

00:42:53:12 - 00:43:11:16
Ed Gillentine
Yeah, same. That is. You know, it's interesting you say that we've had this similar experience and it's a it's almost the network, a logical discussion about I mean, there's a lot of reasons and frankly, there's a lot of good reasons why in that culture, a lot of things get churned out with with poor quality. It is what it is.

00:43:11:18 - 00:43:41:11
Ed Gillentine
But but I don't want any of our listeners necessarily hear us criticizing because there's a lot more going on in that culture. But yes, and you and I are trying to what do what we're trying to do. I wrote a note. You were talking was repeat buyers. We're talking about sustainability. When you write garbage, which I see a lot, we're going to take these ladies that we helped off the street and they're going to make scarves or they're going to make jewelry.

00:43:41:13 - 00:43:53:00
Ed Gillentine
And it's just it's just junk. Right, Right. The only people it or tourists that you're just not going to get any repeat buyers when you can make something like coffee exceptional.

00:43:53:02 - 00:43:53:19
Allison Karnes
There are.

00:43:53:21 - 00:44:16:24
Ed Gillentine
I would even say high quality doesn't have to be exceptional. I'll look shout out to Starbucks for me, to you and I'll just get hammered for for for praising Starbucks. But I go to Starbucks when I travel around the world and you know why? It's because consistency. You know what I'm going to get? I can go into some super fancy coffee shop and there's some unbelievable coffee in Addis.

00:44:17:01 - 00:44:31:19
Ed Gillentine
Yeah, but you can also get something that you're like, Holy cow, this is terribly bad. I want to know what I'm getting. So I go to Starbucks. Sustainability does better with quality because it. Right?

00:44:31:21 - 00:44:32:11
Allison Karnes
great.

00:44:32:13 - 00:45:11:14
Ed Gillentine
All right, let's land a plan because you and I talk for a year and a half on this. And and maybe I need to do one where I share all of my stumbles, but that would take at least like 85. I guess that's not John and T.J. and everybody else is. But if you could, I don't know, synopses or maybe bullet point, what you think is most important about sustainability and why it was something that you were so like you thought it was so important that you said we need to do a podcast on.

00:45:11:16 - 00:45:35:19
Allison Karnes
Wow, I don't know that I'll bullet point very well. I'm not that's not my gifting. But I tell you, I'm trying to build a company that will last. I am 70 years old. I will not be here forever. My husband and I have 13 grandchildren. We'd love to be part of their lives a little more than we can be here.

00:45:35:21 - 00:45:57:23
Allison Karnes
So we we do know that our time, our full time in Ethiopia is going to come to an end and it's going to then be coming back and forth like you've done and and working with my organization. But I'm not here on the ground. I want these workers to have a job forever. If they want that job, I want this organization to continue.

00:45:58:03 - 00:46:06:09
Allison Karnes
And that takes building sustainability. I cannot just run an organization that's built on donations. I won't.

00:46:06:11 - 00:46:07:21
Ed Gillentine
I want.

00:46:07:23 - 00:46:08:15
Allison Karnes
I just want.

00:46:08:16 - 00:46:39:20
Ed Gillentine
One that's not gifted it as you said it. But I think that that nailed it. And and even I got emotional listening because for each of those employees that you want to have a job forever as long as they want it like for you and there's a face, there's a name, there's a story. They're human beings. And that's why I personally love economics as a method, as a vehicle for helping people, because I see those faces and I see those stories.

00:46:39:22 - 00:46:41:17
Ed Gillentine
And it breaks your heart when you can't.

00:46:41:19 - 00:47:07:00
Allison Karnes
Read your heart. And the other thing that my husband and I really, really believe so strongly in is I'm a teacher and we just believe in education. Education. It's the game changer in the developing world. You have got to get an education. And so with that in mind WRAPS funds. All of our workers, children's education and our workers, if they want to go back to school to improve their education.

00:47:07:02 - 00:47:26:14
Allison Karnes
I have one girl that we hired this year. She's never been to school. She started grade. Yeah, I have another girl that started in grade three. Now she's in ninth grade. So we're so proud of those women. And you know what, Ed? If they want to leave reps and go on and get a better job, that is great.

00:47:26:16 - 00:47:27:06
Ed Gillentine
That is.

00:47:27:08 - 00:47:38:13
Allison Karnes
We'll hire another woman and we'll bring her up. And in this we have had last we had four workers that have left us for better jobs, for commercial bank jobs. And that's great.

00:47:38:15 - 00:47:39:12
Ed Gillentine
It's a here we are.

00:47:39:13 - 00:47:49:16
Allison Karnes
We're thrilled. I mean, we missed them because I that's training. I have to retrain. But on the other hand, I got to hire four more people. Right. And so that's.

00:47:49:16 - 00:48:11:07
Ed Gillentine
Why I can say that was the impetus to their career. You know, they will. And. Yeah, yeah, that's remarkable. That's one of the exciting things, too, about a company as you grow, right? And we talked about this at Highland Harvesters. At some point you don't have a coffee problem or a backpack problem or a importing problem. You have a human challenge by getting all those people.

00:48:11:12 - 00:48:35:04
Ed Gillentine
But at some point you need a CEO, you need a CFO, you need higher level jobs. And at least for some, it sounds like you're on the same page to who do we want to put in there in Ethiopia? We want to cram as many women in there as possible. Right. Because they don't get the shot and. They're so exceptionally talented was my experience in Ethiopia.

00:48:35:04 - 00:48:36:24
Ed Gillentine
And I believe that to be true around the world.

00:48:37:05 - 00:48:48:04
Allison Karnes
Absolutely. I have great workers, brilliant workers, just brilliant. Yeah. I just love it. And, you know, I'm asked nearly every day someone comes to my house looking for a job I wish I can employ.

00:48:48:06 - 00:48:48:18
Ed Gillentine
Yeah, I.

00:48:48:18 - 00:49:04:05
Allison Karnes
Don't say more jobs right now, but I would love to be able to have more jobs because we're changing we're changing the world here. Yes, because we're going to school. The kids are getting an education. They never forgotten. That's right. And these are empowered because they can read now.

00:49:04:07 - 00:49:05:22
Ed Gillentine
Yep. Unbelievable.

00:49:05:24 - 00:49:10:22
Allison Karnes
Well, it is empowering when you watch what education can do to change world.

00:49:10:24 - 00:49:34:09
Ed Gillentine
And I would say to anybody listening as well, like you can hear how fired up Alison and I are, the ability to gift that we get to help people and you don't or you as someone that has an idea that you want to implement for impact, it's life change. It changes your life. And I don't mean that in a cheesy sort of Hollywood way.

00:49:34:09 - 00:49:51:04
Ed Gillentine
I mean it in a very real deep DNA way. It's it's life changing. It is. So I want to explain any any books or videos or whatever that you read that you were like, Man, that really triggered me. You mentioned the Starbucks book. What was the name?

00:49:51:05 - 00:50:09:05
Allison Karnes
Starbucks Exes got some great principles in place. They didn't grow to where they are today without setting some principles in place, and I just admired them. I, like you said, I don't remember everything about Starbucks. Of course not. And but I have to say good job. Way to think.

00:50:09:05 - 00:50:16:03
Ed Gillentine
It is a fantastic job. And and the other thing for you and I working cross-culturally, they do that all around the globe.

00:50:16:05 - 00:50:16:23
Allison Karnes
They do.

00:50:17:01 - 00:50:17:07
Ed Gillentine
It's.

00:50:17:07 - 00:50:18:00
Allison Karnes
Right.

00:50:18:02 - 00:50:19:12
Ed Gillentine
Pretty crazy to me.

00:50:19:14 - 00:50:20:00
Allison Karnes
It's pretty crazy.

00:50:20:20 - 00:50:42:04
Ed Gillentine
I will suggest a book too. If you've never read Jim Collins’ stuff. He does. He wrote a great book called Built to Last, which for profit. But he also did a good to great for nonprofits. It's like Dr. Tan's book. It's pretty small, but it talks to people about how metrics are important with nonprofits, how to be sustainable.

00:50:42:06 - 00:51:07:06
Ed Gillentine
So I would encourage our listeners to go snag those books again. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you and your team and just taking the time to join us. Also, big, big thanks to our listeners. I know y'all enjoy doing this and we love bringing you the content. Hopefully to our listeners, this has been helpful on your own journey to impact.

00:51:07:08 - 00:51:28:11
Ed Gillentine
You can learn more about Impact at EdGillentine.com. Also a great resource., we like to thank anyway, for impact articles, books like Allison and I have mentioned, white papers, those types of things. You can buy the book that I wrote a couple of years ago about Journey to Impact, and it touches on sustainability in there. Well, it's sort of in the DNA, so it's throughout.

00:51:28:14 - 00:51:49:02
Ed Gillentine
You can get that at Amazon or Barnes and Noble or wherever you buy books. And then also on the website EdGillentine.com, all these podcasts are archived there. And again for this particular one, I would stress go back and listen to number 67. It was last month. It'll give you a running start into this one and I think it'll make it that much more helpful.

00:51:49:02 - 00:51:51:18
Ed Gillentine
And thanks for listening. Until next time, all the best.